Voting Rules

[Ivan Denisov]

Poll duration currently is not defined by any rule, so the chair can use it or not at his own discretion. That's as it should be,IMHO. I dont understand the need to regulate here.

The example is previous voting about Redmine. Time limit was making it invalid because when the poll time was reached there was no quorum. When I removed time limit, Ivan K. voted. This make the poll results valid. The quorum is at the first place, from my point of view according Center rules.

[DGDanforth]

Folks,
I have found a compromise that I think should satisfy all parties.
I agree with Ivan that there should be no silent votes, all members should vote.
Josef has said that to implement the stable rule the quorum needs to be 100%.
We can eliminate time consideration by using 3 simple rules. Here they are

Voting Rules

(1) COMPLETE: A vote is complete when all members have voted (a).
(2) STABLE: A vote is stable if the results can not be changed by the missing votes (a).
(3) RESULT: A vote has a result if there is one option with more votes than any other option (b)(c).

(a) ends voting.
(b) determined after voting ends.
(c) option does not include ABSTAIN.

[Ivan Denisov]

Doug, your rules is exact, short and fit our needs! I like them a lot.

If voting is COMPLITE, but have no RESULT it should not be finished immediately with no results, because somebody can change opinion. I am suggesting to give one day in such rare cases.

[Josef Templ]

A more precise summary of closing and validating polls would IMHO be:

Every poll contains an option 'ABSTAIN', which is counted as a vote
but not as a result.

A poll can be closed if at least one of the following is true:
a) The result is STABLE.
b) The poll time has EXPIRED.
c) ALL members have cast their vote.

A closed poll has a valid result if at least one of the following is true:
x) The result is STABLE.
y) The QUORUM has been reached and there is a LEADING option.


Remarks:
This covers both limited and infinite polls.

It should be clear what 'The result is STABLE' means. In a final document
it could be expanded to something like
"The leading option is ahead by more than the number of missing votes."

Whenever you use an enumeration of items in a rule, please make
sure to specify how the items are related (and, or, xor, etc.).
I connected them with 'at least one is true' which means OR.

It is assumed that everything not specified is up to the chair.
For example, it is not specified how to breaks ties.
If we want to define this, we will never get to productive work.

Adding x) corrects the logical error in http://forum.blackboxframework.org/view ... =127#p1149.

- Josef

[Ivan Denisov]

Josef, IMHO, we should not use QUORUM and EXPIRED. Poll duration led to the problem of invalid votes because of the quorum. The quorum is led to early stopping of voting. This quorum and duration gives more problems then benefits.

The Doug short version of rules will be very effective. It includes short circuit idea. It includes 100% quorum idea and unlimited time. This rules against silent behaviour, that becomes open sabotaging of Center activity.

[Josef Templ]

> I agree with Ivan that there should be no silent votes, all members should vote.

Doug, this is unrealistic.
Don't count on that.

In addition, a single member may then block a poll endlessly in the extreme case
and there is no way to proceed, unless there is a time limit.
I am convinced that the idea of a quorum is absolutely meaningful and required.
I thought this has already been agreed on.

- Josef

[Ivan Denisov]

In addition, a single member may then block a poll endlessly in the extreme case
and there is no way to proceed, unless there is a time limit.

1. Why this person will do this?
2. He can not block if others are united in opinion and finish voting by "short circuit"

I am not understanding why Bernhard did not vote last two times, but this should not happen. As I understood Helmut take two weeks vocation from Center after releasing of CPC edition and he mentioned this.

[Josef Templ]

> 1. Why this person will do this?
> 2. He can not block if others are united in opinion and finish voting by "short circuit"

Assume it is 5:5 and the missing vote is from a member killed in a car accident.

If there is no time limit, we not only may have the problem of breaking ties (for example 5:5 with 1 ABSTAIN)
but in addition we may have the problem of breaking an endless waiting time. And breaking an endless
waiting time is essentially the same as setting a time limit upfront.
So, folks, it you want to keep it simple, set a time limit.

- Josef

[Ivan Denisov]

Can it be the time limit after quorum has been reached? We can reduce quorum to 70% and make 3 days after it is reached?

Assume it is 5:5 and the missing vote is from a member killed in a car accident.

In this case (i hope this will not happen), if one member will change his opinion we will have short circuit

[Josef Templ]

> Can it be the time limit after quorum has been reached? We can reduce quorum to 70% and make 3 days after it is reached?

Using the quorum to terminate a poll BEFORE the time limit has expired is simply the wrong approach.
Forget about it. It can lead to unfair situations as outlined in earlier postings.
So, again, what is unfair about it?
Assume that all members vote quickly, i.e. within a couple of days. The chair can close the poll
before the remaining quick voters have a chance to cast their votes.
So it is matter of luck for the last quick voters to take part in a decision.
In the extreme case this can happen within one day.
OK, an extreme case, but it shows the principal problem of this approach
and for a programmer it should be easy to abstract from an example to the
general problem behind it.
And the three day rule only complicates the rule set further.

The correct approach is to use the quorum for validating the result AFTER the time limit has expired.

- Josef