BlackBox Framework Center

OK, Josef, I now understand where you are coming from.

Josef Templ wrote: Regarding the question "What would be the use": The two issues are independent. So what is the problem
with voting for both of them? If they are not independent then it should be made clear what the dependency is.

For me one problem of two subsequent votes would be that it takes even longer to come to a decision, and the "center" is incapacitated as it is now. And no discussion about the real topic that needs to be discussed before we can start actual work is done (what is the vision/goal of the center).

Also, the question of independence is not so clear cut. As I said, my goal, as that of OberonCore, was to solve the communication problems of the center, not to solve all possible problems of the current board in one go. In that light, you might want to "either/or". If you vote now that f.i. OberonCore should do the center board on their machine, this does not mean that in a later vote you could not say that you also want the non-center board moved to usenet. But as I said, IMHO the dealings of the non-center board should not be decided by center members alone, but by all members of the community. Thus, there should be a vote on the non-center forums about where the non-center community should be. So, yes to more than one vote, but I would cut it up differently than you proposed.

OTOH, this is only my personal opinion, I have no authority for an official ruling


In the general case:
Combining independent issues in one vote produces troubles by definition.
Either the set of choices is incomplete or the set of choices is very long.[/quote]

Peter Kushnir wrote:

ReneK wrote:Is everything discussed in your opinion Peter? Are you ready to vote?

My opinion from the begining of this forum was "we do not need to be hurry".

And I agree to that 100%.

Peter Kushnir wrote: OK, Ivan created this forum for "Center" needs, but community forum and BlackBox topics from here were not necessary. This is the first reason we need to split up forum.
The second one is about huge amount of topics with "chat" between manager and programmer, it has really no concrete relation to "BlackBox Component Builder" lifecycle.
For now I'm ready to vote even for wipe out of this forum. It's really fast, it's comfortable and easy to use, but it has lost it's form.

Would you change the options? Or is this OK for you as it is? Would you make more than one vote, as Josef proposed?

Peter Kushnir wrote: Why don't you, Rene, manage it in a little more oberon-way? As it was told "Do things as simple as possible but not simpler".

Hm. I would be ready to do the chairman work for some time as proposed by OberonCore, but I do believe that to administrate phpbb, more knowledge of phpbb is necessary than I have. But OberonCore has the knowledge, they have the infrastructure, and they are willing to use both to the benefit of the community, if the center members are willing to authorize this. And we are talking about the center only, not about community forums or other blackbox topics. That's why I support their proposal. As I understand, phpbb can be configured in a way to do what the email-fans among us want, and it can do what the no-email-fans want. It just needs to be configured correctly, and I think OberonCore know how to do that, too. So, this would mean simplicity and flexibility, but not oversimplification.

I do not believe that this actions with splitting will help the community. This temporary forum is good from technical side. The problem is that OberonCore do not want to help with administration. Their demand for administration was stopping not "center" forums activity. My opinion that this will decrease "center" authority. By this action we showing our selfs as people unable for external communication... that is strange for open-source project. But closing the not "center" forums for a while can be temporary measure to start communication inside "center".

Peter "wiping" mood can be satisfied with a regular clean up and forums reorganization.

This discussion is so long... let's vote?

I suggest only two options for this!

- separation of community and support boards for "center" boards
- no separation, let it be like now

And voting now will help us how? Did you read Robert's last post? Any ideas on that?

ReneK wrote:And voting now will help us how? Did you read Robert's last post? Any ideas on that?

You are right, I will make one demo, that is easy to migrate (like Robert ask) and solves the problem.

I have made the demo solution. Please look how it can be.

I have made the forum clone to http://community.blackboxframework.org
Then I removed "center" forums from this clone.
Here I temporary hide the not "center" forums, so if we decide to roll back I will easily recover them.

All users are copied, so nobody need to register again. So Robert can use support forum and center forums with the same username and password. OberonCore can administrate this forum as they wants now. I will close registration of new users here until we not decide different.

We can move this forum on OberonCore hosting or new hosting. I will give database dump and files archive to OberonCore if we decide to do this.

From the posts so far, I see that there are some who are used to working on a message board, while others are not.
Some know how to deal with a board, yet don't find it intuitive, others do.

So, I had preferred if we first make a short questionaire about how people want to work, and then we'll see if and how we can facilitate this.

For me, this would seem to be a better and quicker way than to change and adapt constantly without knowing what people want.

ReneK wrote:From the posts so far, I see that there are some who are used to working on a message board, while others are not.
Some know how to deal with a board, yet don't find it intuitive, others do.

So, I had preferred if we first make a short questionaire about how people want to work, and then we'll see if and how we can facilitate this.

For me, this would seem to be a better and quicker way than to change and adapt constantly without knowing what people want.

I agree and have made the discussion thread.

The board was separated and nobody argue for a few months, so this discussion seems to be over and I locking it.