Separation to community board and center board

[Peter Kushnir]

So, guys, are we going to split forums or not?

[ReneK]

Is everything discussed in your opinion Peter? Are you ready to vote?

[Josef Templ]

How would you split? How would you formulate the votes? Also please keep in mind that there are options which are currently not "available" since there is no one who volunteered to do the work (eg. the option "Rene administrates the center board on a machine different from Oberore's and Ivan's" is not covered, because I do not volunteer for that.)

The first question to vote about would be

"Do you want to split the current single board into a center and a community section?"

One advantage of splitting would be that center members not interested in community discussions are not bothered with community discussions and vice verse.
Another advantage of splitting would be that the management of the sections can be separated and there could even be another technology or hosting platform for any of these sections.
The disadvantage of splitting is that users interested in both sections need to look for new postings at two places.

After that vote but before doing any reorganisation there would be votes about how to proceed with the center section and the community section.

- Josef

[ReneK]

I see your point, but at the current rate of participation, having several votes about this could well take until Christmas 2016 . I'd prefer to not be too hasty, but also not too slow.


The option "Do you want to split" is identical to the option

*) We should keep the boards as they are,

It's just the other way round. Do you really think we need a separate vote for this?

[cfbsoftware]

The option "Do you want to split" is identical to the option

*) We should keep the boards as they are,

It's just the other way round. Do you really think we need a separate vote for this?

That depends on the voting system. If there are several different questions and you are only allowed to pick your one favourite option then you need both questions in the total group, If there was only one question with a yes / no answer then, yes, they are one and the same question.

[ReneK]

The option "Do you want to split" is identical to the option

*) We should keep the boards as they are,

It's just the other way round. Do you really think we need a separate vote for this?

That depends on the voting system. If there are several different questions and you are only allowed to pick your one favourite option then you need both questions in the total group, If there was only one question with a yes / no answer then, yes, they are one and the same question.

The current set would be:

*) We should separate the center member forums from the other non-center forums into two boards, with the center boards administered by OberonCore
*) We should put all discussions on the non-center forums to a halt until the center is established
*) We should move the non-center forums to Usenet or Google Groups
*) We should move the center forums to Usenet or Google Groups
*) We should keep the forums as they are
*) I'm fine with all options mentioned
*) I abstain from this vote

How would you formulate the vote? Would you split the votes?

[Josef Templ]

*) We should separate the center member forums from the other non-center forums into two boards, with the center boards administered by OberonCore
*) We should put all discussions on the non-center forums to a halt until the center is established
*) We should move the non-center forums to Usenet or Google Groups
*) We should move the center forums to Usenet or Google Groups
*) We should keep the forums as they are
*) I'm fine with all options mentioned
*) I abstain from this vote

I cannot see much progress in this set of choices. Please correct me if I am wrong
but It is still not possible to vote for both, number 1 and number 3, for example,
although both are independent and the combination might give sense to somebody.
I assume that only one choice is allowed. Are there multiple choices?

[ReneK]

I'm not sure what you mean, Josef.

If 1 take one and three, that would be:

1) We should separate the center member forums from the other non-center forums into two boards, with the center boards administered by OberonCore
3) We should move the non-center forums to Usenet or Google Groups

So are you saying one would want to move the center forums to oberoncore AND the non-center forums to Usenet/Google?

I have not yet understood that this could be wanted. What would be the use (honest question, not critical question)?

My idea so far was to get the center going without damaging the non-center community.

On an other thought: wouldn't it be best to let the whole community (center and non center members) decide what to do with the non-center forums, instead of the center dictating what happens to the whole?

I do not see with what authority the center could decide about things not center. But that's just my personal opinion.

That's one reason more, why I would have preferred that as of now only the center had a functioning method of communicating. But now we *have* a starting community larger than the center, we have to deal with it, and to do that responsibly, or we marginalize ourselves.

[Josef Templ]

So are you saying one would want to move the center forums to oberoncore AND the non-center forums to Usenet/Google?

I have not yet understood that this could be wanted. What would be the use (honest question, not critical question)?

In this particular case:
The fact that I have proposed to think about moving the community section to usenet
does not tell anything about my vote on the independent issue of moving the center section.
In other words, if I vote for moving the community section to usenet I would loose the possibility to vote
about moving the center section and implicitly would have to reject this.
It is not a valid assumption that something (e.g. moving the center section) not proposed by me would be automatically rejected by me.
Regarding the question "What would be the use": The two issues are independent. So what is the problem
with voting for both of them? If they are not independent then it should be made clear what the dependency is.

In the general case:
Combining independent issues in one vote produces troubles by definition.
Either the set of choices is incomplete or the set of choices is very long.

[Peter Kushnir]

Is everything discussed in your opinion Peter? Are you ready to vote?

My opinion from the begining of this forum was "we do not need to be hurry". OK, Ivan created this forum for "Center" needs, but community forum and BlackBox topics from here were not necessary. This is the first reason we need to split up forum.
The second one is about huge amount of topics with "chat" between manager and programmer, it has really no concrete relation to "BlackBox Component Builder" lifecycle.
For now I'm ready to vote even for wipe out of this forum. It's really fast, it's comfortable and easy to use, but it has lost it's form. Why don't you, Rene, manage it in a little more oberon-way? As it was told "Do things as simple as possible but not simpler".