Separation to community board and center board

[OberonCore]

Below follows a personal opinion of Boris Rumshin, head of OberonCore.

European colleagues do not want to go beyond the "diplomatic framework"... but we are from the same country, so I will tell directly: The main problem of this forum - You, Ivan. More specifically: your super initiative and authoritarian behavior style. Even if you seems it very democratic. All that you do - is a democracy, all that try to do other - is the bureaucracy and the totalitarian system. But as world history shows us, in fact, everything is vice versa.

Many of the problems should have been solved a long time ago. However, activists spend his time on trying to channel your energy in a peaceful direction.

[Ivan Denisov]

I am not a chairmen or moderator to start votes for anybody. I am starting votes only if I am interested in topic and believe that it will help to establish authoritative "center". That is why I do not see any hypocrisy, I am very sequential in my logic of "center" interaction.

Don't you think that the interests of the majority should prevail? Or you're just contradicting yourself.

Believe that it will help to establish authoritative "center" comes from discussions with people, with majority of active members. If "center" members do not want to discuss problems of community, the wider community becomes the source of that believe. Please, be more active not in kicking me but in discussions.

[ReneK]

We see some hypocrisy, Ivan. In some cases you start voting without reason, but in this case, you wait until more members of the Center give us their opinion.

Fortunately, exactly this is required in this case. And enough only a simple majority of the votes, expressed as an opinion in this topic. Without starting the voting through the forum engine. Therefore, let everyone say what they think.

From our part, we are ready to deal with specific tasks, or we simply stop our participating in useless discussions. Too much working time spent without result.

Current status: two votes in favor, one against.

Finally Ivan is ready to play by the rules we want set up, and now we do not keep them ourselves? This seems a bit hypocritcal, too.

My support for the idea and for voting upon it should be seen as "Everything I would have said has been said, so I am ready to vote. If others still want to discuss, that's OK for me."

So, let's see what others say, and then have a formal vote.

[ReneK]

This can increase moderation level in "center" forums, but decrease "center" authority. The "center" now is not well-deserved, but nominated of itself. I think that this separation should be (if done) in new hosting, not in mine or OberonCore hosting platform and later than the main ideas and membership will be discussed with wider community.

I would not like an absolute separation of "user forum" and "center forum". Like with the wiki, there can and should be a link from here to there and the other way round, and, when the center had its kickk-off, with vision, whitepaper, procedures and rules set in place, then they could (and probably should) be united again. It is for ease of use and to make sure that we finally get our work done that this separation makes sense to me.

And as I see it, this is very compatible with OberonCore's proposal, as they do not talk about using a different URL, but just a different hosting behind the address for center forum and the rest.

[Ivan Denisov]

The easier solution that will cover the OberonCore and Rene vision is freezing Community forums except CV for new members until "center" will be established. I will delegate all administration rights to the more experienced Boris Rumshin and will be not active at all in this role anymore.

I like Rene rule about voting beginning, but four of ten "center" members are never participating in discussions. That we will do if they not put the message?
"Everything I would have said has been said, so I am ready to vote. If others still want to discuss, that's OK for me."

[ReneK]

The easier solution that will cover the OberonCore and Rene vision is freezing Community forums except CV for new members until "center" will be established. I will delegate all administration rights to the more experienced Boris Rumshin and will be not active at all in this role anymore.

IMHO, this would be closing the barn door after the cows have gotten out.

There now is a community involved which is made up not only of center members, and to restrict them from posting would be extremly rude. If I was part of the non-center community and was suddenly restricted from posting because of mismanagement of venter affairs, I would be extremly miffed. I would question the intelligence of those deciding such an action, and I would question the project management skills of those who made an open board in the first place, only to restrict access then again, just because they had not thought things through in the first place.

It's basically like inviting company, and after an hour they are in your flat, you ask them to wait outside, until you are ready, because you forgot something.

I like Rene rule about voting beginning, but four of ten "center" members are never participating in discussions. That we will do if they not put the message?
"Everything I would have said has been said, so I am ready to vote. If others still want to discuss, that's OK for me."

When we had the vote about quorum, the participation was stalled, until some of us decided to contact the missing ones (including those that were not even part of the board until then), inform them about what was going on and that it was important. I imagine that the same action, done by the same people will lead to results in this case, too.

Also, "never participating" is probably too strong a word. For someone who is young with a permanent access to the 'net and the possibility to access the 'net for private things in work time, two weeks is "forever". For those who can be fired if using their work computer privately, two weeks are very short.

[Ivan Denisov]

Metaphors are unnecessary in that case. I think that other community members will understand if "center" members will freeze forums for a while for speeding up important discussions. It is difficult to moderate and nobody whats to do this, so this is logical solution until somebody will take this role. But they will be able to write the CV, read new messages in comfortable way and send private messages. Also community will know that it is the temporary measure.

Thank you for reminding about strict job lows in Austria and German. Yours arguments are reasonable, however this members are not from Europe. The reason is that the questions we are discussing now not interesting for them. Douglas has said about this in mailing list, that he prefer to take part in technical discussions rather than in organizational. However, if you are ready to ask them each time by emails, that is OK.

[ReneK]

Thank you for reminding about strict job lows in Austria and German. Yours arguments are reasonable, however this members are not from Europe. The reason is that the questions we are discussing now not interesting for them. Douglas has said about this in mailing list, that he prefer to take part in technical discussions rather than in organizational. However, if you are ready to ask them each time by emails, that is OK.

One of my relatives works at Vienna's Technical University while studying for his Ph.D., and he has no problem doing things on the side in work time, is allowed to surf &c. So I do not think this is a question of "job lows", but rather a question of working in free market or working at university.

[Ivan Denisov]

One of my relatives works at Vienna's Technical University while studying for his Ph.D., and he has no problem doing things on the side in work time, is allowed to surf &c. So I do not think this is a question of "job lows", but rather a question of working in free market or working at university.

We should not guess and flood the topic, let's ask them! Do members are ready to put your message* in each discussion? I do not want to do this, but ready to do this for following the rules decreasing the mess.

* "Everything I would have said has been said, so I am ready to vote. If others still want to discuss, that's OK for me."

[ReneK]

What does this mean:

Do members are ready to put your's message in each discussion?

Please rephrase or correct the grammar. I did my best and I just don't understand what you are trying to say.