I don't know about standard, but it is a very common convention; for example my email program (Thunderbird) or the links on this very page.Josef Templ wrote:Standard? Which standard are you referring to?
Issue-#175 Display StdLink command in status line
Re: issue-#174 fixing resource keys in StdLinks
Issue-#175 Display StdLink command in status line
For the feature see https://redmine.blackboxframework.org/issues/175.
I suggest that we defer discussion of this topic until after version 1.7.1 stable is released.
I have opened this issue & topic with the intention to move the existing discussion here.
I suggest that we defer discussion of this topic until after version 1.7.1 stable is released.
I have opened this issue & topic with the intention to move the existing discussion here.
- Josef Templ
- Posts: 2047
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:50 am
Re: Issue-#175 Display StdLink command in status line
Can we first clarify the requirements?
In particular:
1. Why is it important that the link cmd is displayed while hovering the mouse over a link?
2. A link has additional information about the 'close' behavior. This is ignored so far.
For me the hovering is really a problem because it destroys information that is in the status bar
and it destroys this information without any explicit user interaction, by accidentally hovering over a link.
If the only reason for the hovering behavior is that it looks similar to a web browser then
it should be taken into account that the BlackBox text editor is not a web browser and the link displayed is not a URL
but a CP command or command sequence. This is very much like displaying some javascript code in the
web browser instead of a URL; pretty confusing and useless for the regular user.
In text editors or pdf viewers there is usually no such behavior.
Also in web browsers the behavior is slightly different. Usually a popup window is used for displaying a link
and that popup window is opened in the lower left corner.
MS Word uses a different convention. It opens a popup window near the link if the mouse rests on a link
for some time. This is similar to a tooltip.
In addition, in BlackBox the status bar is optional. It can also be switched off.
An obvious alternative therefore would be not to use the status bar at all but to open the link dialog with mouse-right
as a shortcut for (1) selecting the link view, then (2) mouse right and (3) select 'Properties'.
This would then display all information about the link, i.e. also the 'close' property.
- Josef
In particular:
1. Why is it important that the link cmd is displayed while hovering the mouse over a link?
2. A link has additional information about the 'close' behavior. This is ignored so far.
For me the hovering is really a problem because it destroys information that is in the status bar
and it destroys this information without any explicit user interaction, by accidentally hovering over a link.
If the only reason for the hovering behavior is that it looks similar to a web browser then
it should be taken into account that the BlackBox text editor is not a web browser and the link displayed is not a URL
but a CP command or command sequence. This is very much like displaying some javascript code in the
web browser instead of a URL; pretty confusing and useless for the regular user.
In text editors or pdf viewers there is usually no such behavior.
Also in web browsers the behavior is slightly different. Usually a popup window is used for displaying a link
and that popup window is opened in the lower left corner.
MS Word uses a different convention. It opens a popup window near the link if the mouse rests on a link
for some time. This is similar to a tooltip.
In addition, in BlackBox the status bar is optional. It can also be switched off.
An obvious alternative therefore would be not to use the status bar at all but to open the link dialog with mouse-right
as a shortcut for (1) selecting the link view, then (2) mouse right and (3) select 'Properties'.
This would then display all information about the link, i.e. also the 'close' property.
- Josef
Re: Issue-#175 Display StdLink command in status line
Wow - I did not know about the Link dialog. I've always had to change the document to Edit mode, then <Ctrl> Left-click to see the command. This has the unpleasant side effect of making the document dirty. I did not know the close behaviour could be set.Josef Templ wrote:An obvious alternative therefore would be not to use the status bar at all but to open the link dialog with mouse-right
as a shortcut for (1) selecting the link view, then (2) mouse right and (3) select 'Properties'.
This would then display all information about the link, i.e. also the 'close' property.
Where is the Link dialog documented?
- Josef Templ
- Posts: 2047
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:50 am
Re: Issue-#175 Display StdLink command in status line
I don't know if the 'Link & Target' dialog is documented explicitly, probably not, but it follows from the general behavior of views.
If a singleton view is selected, a mouse-right click on it opens a context menu with a Properties menu item for that view.
- Josef
If a singleton view is selected, a mouse-right click on it opens a context menu with a Properties menu item for that view.
- Josef
Re: Issue-#175 Display StdLink command in status line
There are always right and wrong ways to use a program.
1. It is not important to use hovering over links. It is just comfort and nothing else.
2. I didn't notice either the powerful dialog after selection and right click properties.
The conclusion: We don't need hovering links.
By the way (obsolete comments):
The status bar does not flicker on my computer.
Why is it a problem to overwrite the status bar by hovering when the status bar is switched off?
Best way is to leave it as it is and close this topic.
- Helmut
1. It is not important to use hovering over links. It is just comfort and nothing else.
2. I didn't notice either the powerful dialog after selection and right click properties.
The conclusion: We don't need hovering links.
By the way (obsolete comments):
The status bar does not flicker on my computer.
Why is it a problem to overwrite the status bar by hovering when the status bar is switched off?
Best way is to leave it as it is and close this topic.
- Helmut
Re: Issue-#175 Display StdLink command in status line
Not sure I agree!Zinn wrote:Best way is to leave it as it is and close this topic.
I like the way the link appears so easily in the status line, but also accept that Josef's arguments against this have some merit.
So his <Right-click> shortcut suggestion could be a good compromise.
Two problems with the current implementation I would like to see improved:
1 - The Link dialog should be documented (in Std/Docu/Links.odc ?) The argument that this is unnecessary as "it follows from the general behavior of views" is inadequate. A Link is not a View; select it then go to Menu "Info->View state". I am happy to propose some wording.
2 - You cannot see the Link state for the Links in Menu "Help->Contents". But it should (I guess !) be easy to respond to Right-clicks even when the Container is in Browser mode.
Re: Issue-#175 Display StdLink command in status line
The only improvement I see will be that the right click opens the property dialog (the link form) instead of showing the link in the status line.
- Helmut
- Helmut
- Josef Templ
- Posts: 2047
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:50 am
Re: Issue-#175 Display StdLink command in status line
It looks like the 'Links & Targets' dialog has been added in a later BB version but the docu has not been updated accordingly.Robert wrote: Two problems with the current implementation I would like to see improved:
1 - The Link dialog should be documented (in Std/Docu/Links.odc ?) The argument that this is unnecessary as "it follows from the general behavior of views" is inadequate. A Link is not a View; select it then go to Menu "Info->View state". I am happy to propose some wording.
2 - You cannot see the Link state for the Links in Menu "Help->Contents". But it should (I guess !) be easy to respond to Right-clicks even when the Container is in Browser mode.
It should of course be documented. Nevertheless, a link is a pair of views and the behavior regarding Properties comes from that views.
Using the special <>..<> syntax for creating and editing links (and targets) is well-known to most users but
the dialog box is much more user friendly in my opinion. You don't have to learn a special syntax.
A very natural extension of the current way of creating links and targets would be to allow arbitrary text selection and
use the special syntax only for backwards compatibility.
Inserting a link, for example, would then mean to select the link text and execute the 'Create Link' command.
That command adds a pair of link views around the selection, colors it blue, underlines it, and opens the properties dialog for completing the rest.
- Josef
-
- Posts: 1700
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:21 am
- Location: Russia
Re: Issue-#175 Display StdLink command in status line
Only links with OpenExternal can show anything in the status bar. Other information should be hidden.
Last edited by Ivan Denisov on Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.