Issue-#175 Revote Display StdLink command in status line

How should we handle this topic?

Poll ended at Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:15 am

Incorporate the new changes
4
57%
 
Zinn, Josef Templ, DGDanforth, Robert
Stay with the existing implementation
0
No votes
 
Reject the topic
0
No votes
 
Abstain
3
43%
 
cfbsoftware, akastargazer, Bernhard
 
Total votes : 7

Issue-#175 Revote Display StdLink command in status line

Postby Robert » Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:15 am

For the issue see: https://redmine.blackboxframework.org/issues/175
For the discussion see: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=675
For the diffs see: https://redmine.blackboxframework.org/p ... 5f607b8ed9

This is a second vote on this topic.

Subsequent to the first vote being passed there was a request, dated 7 Nov: "Can you please switch off the new feature for Mask & Browser mode? It is better if regular user of my apps will not see technical information."
Adopting this topic has the side effect of preventing the developer from hiding the contents of links in deployed applications.

This lead to some discussion and some (relatively) minor improvements in the behaviour and implementation. It is now less likely for a user to accidently see unintended links. But the ability of the developer to prevent it has not been restored.

I am calling a vote now as two members have requested it.
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Re: Issue-#175 Revote Display StdLink command in status line

Postby Josef Templ » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:30 pm

Robert, what does 'Reject the topic' mean?
This option has not been discussed, has it?
If it has not been discussed, it should not be on the list at all.

- Josef
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Re: Issue-#175 Revote Display StdLink command in status line

Postby Robert » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:48 am

Josef Templ wrote:Robert, what does 'Reject the topic' mean?
This option has not been discussed, has it?
If it has not been discussed, it should not be on the list at all.

On 12-Oct we agreed to incorporate this feature into the unstable build.

On 7-Nov a user asked us to "Switch off the new feature for Mask & Browser mode" as it made it impossible to deploy applications where implementation detail was hidden from users. This is both a backward compatibility issue, and a limitation for new developments.

This was, for me, an unforseen side-effect to the current implementation of this feature.

This post started the recent discussion which has led to a request for a vote.

I think the main topic of the vote is whether we accept or reject the request that prompted the discussion.

Currently the only way to accept the request is to reject the feature (or delay it to 1.7.2).

There are two ways of rejecting the request: Stay with the current implementation, or adopt changes in line with the latest diffs.


As an aside: This feature was originally scheduled for possible incorporation into 1.7.2. On the 3-Oct I made the "Exceptional decision" to rescedule it to 1.7.1 because I thought it had widespread backing, and was close to a final implementation. It turns out I was wrong on both counts.
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Re: Issue-#175 Revote Display StdLink command in status line

Postby Josef Templ » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:35 am

There are more options, I think. Here are some thoughts:

1. My understanding of Ivan's request was that users should not be confused by using a mouse-right click click in a link.
This has been solved. Since Ivan did not complain any further, we can assume that he is satisfied.

2. If you put passwords etc. into a link, that can also be recovered easily by using a text editor on the document.
Hiding the dialog provides only a very weak access protection. Don't rely on it.

3. In a web app, there are many links and javascript commands visible to the user in a popup window when hovering over a link.
In BlackBox the link is only displayed with the Ctrl modifier, i.e. upon explicit request.
The displayed command is the equivalent of a javascript statement in a browser.
To me the BlackBox way is much cleaner than the web-browser standard.
Going beyond that and hiding under all conditions takes away control (information) from the user
and soon there may be the request to add more control, like in a browser.

4. If hiding the link dialog is really important, which I doubt, then the link dialog resource could be removed or
overwritten in the application directory, or, even simpler, a command button could be used instead of the link.
If all that does not work, which I doubt even more, a flag could be introduced. I tried to find a solution without
a flag but using a flag would of course be preferred over rejecting the topic at all.

Rejecting this topic would mean to ignore all the benefits that the topic provides.
Among them is a clean way of inserting and editing links instead of forcing the use of the crippled inline syntax.

- Josef
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Re: Issue-#175 Revote Display StdLink command in status line

Postby Ivan Denisov » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:54 pm

Josef Templ wrote:My understanding of Ivan's request was that users should not be confused by using a mouse-right click click in a link.
This has been solved. Since Ivan did not complain any further, we can assume that he is satisfied.

It is better now. However I think that you simply ignored my request. I have no mental power to argue with you polite way, so I have to stay away from further discussion.
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Re: Issue-#175 Revote Display StdLink command in status line

Postby Robert » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:08 am

Robert wrote:Does anyone else have an opinion regarding the "fundamentally incompatibity". Do we want/need to be able to hide this implementation detail, in a Mask or Browser document, in a deployed application?

Josef has pointed out that the link dialog function can be effectively disabled by simply deleting //Std/Rsrc/Links.odc.
This seems to me to be an adequate resolution of this problem.

I can now support this feature.
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Re: Issue-#175 Revote Display StdLink command in status line

Postby Robert » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:54 pm

Vote finished; new changes to be incorporated.
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